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  • #10107

    Frank
    Participant

    For thousands of years both doctors and poets have espoused the belief that falling in love and mental illness are close cousins, sharing a number of common symptoms. Recent advances in evolutionary psychiatry and neuroscience are consistent with this view. Scientific findings are discussed in the context of Robert Lenkiewicz's speculations on the physiological nature of romantic love.Neuroscience is a physiological field of study. This statement in effect says that Frank intends to compare apples with apples, he pre supposes that Robert’s intuitive physiological observations are comparable (in the first instance) with neuroscience. Frank classifies a typical Lenkiewicz physiological observation as mere physical symptom;

    Love is also strongly associated with a wide range of physical ‘symptoms’. Lovers are often described as fevered, or pale and depleted – unable to sleep or eat ....

    Clearly, he ended up delivering the following lecture;For thousands of years both doctors and poets have espoused the belief that falling in love and mental illness are close cousins, sharing a number of common symptoms. Recent advances in evolutionary psychiatry and neuroscience are consistent with this view. Scientific findings are discussed in the context of Robert Lenkiewicz's symptoms recorded during an episode of romantic love.

    If you weren't satisfied, did you question him and say his views had nothing to do with Lenkiewicz?

    I was satisfied with what he did, I suspect nobody else in the room had an issue, but we aspire to a higher level of discussion in this forum when posting under the category “Lenkiewicz – Influences and Philosophy”.

    Do you think that ROL's theories on aesthetic addictions can be scientifically proved or disproved?

    Of course not, where in the field of science might an aesthetic matrix be studied? Robert has a very, very good pseudo philosophical position not a scientific one, it seems intuitive to people, it seems to make sense, I like it and I’m very picky.Neither do I think science can help either, Serotonin levels tell us nothing of the human (or animal) condition, nothing about WHY but maybe something about HOW. Serotonin is as relevant as electricity, yes it can power the light but it cannot tell us what or why the switch was pulled ... that requires someone like ROL or RDL.

    #10108

    John
    Participant

    Well, I'm impressed, I haven't been here for what seems like an age. Jojo is still winding people up and we are still engaged in the debate about Lenkiewicz's thoughts about falling in love as an addictive behaviour. I think the most amusing part of this is that ROL probably milked the idea that love was a fiction in order to maintain his multiple relationships and to dupe plenty of empty headed brunettes into bed. I would have. Once again I find

    #10109

    WEB WEAVER
    Participant

    Alcohol can be ironic. It eventually reduces Serotonin levels, making people feel worse rather than better. Love can be ironic. Frank Tallis and Robert Lenkiewicz both believe it.

    #10110

    Annie HillSmith
    Participant

    Earlier in this thread, Member 555 quoted from Lenkiewicz [see below] … I thought it would be useful to give the reference for this quote. It is from a transcript of Lenkiewicz' talk at Sherwell Church, March 17th 2000."Late in life, Robert described his feelings for Mary (or more to the fact, feelings triggered by Mary), and how he attempted to put them on paper:"A sense of distance; an erotic innuendo - or was it; a twinge of jealousy; the closeness of the wall to the left of my head or the space to the right of it as I’m drinking tea; the sound of her voice; the way I felt I could balance on one leg on the end-part of her laugh; the movements of her mouth; the flow of blouse against the curve of breast; her running down the stairs with a black flagging coat; the rain outside; the fatigue of the waitress; and on and on it went. Every single event that went on, no matter how trivial, took on a strange poetic significance simply because I was in this persons company."To any outsider, this is a beautiful description of deep love.Robert continues:"I used to take newspapers, quite arbitrarily, paint images of her on it, and then look for paragraphs which I would comment on as though they were in some way secret hints to the nature of the relationship. A kind of mental illness."Robert's words."

    #10111

    Annie HillSmith
    Participant

    I've just been reviewing the talk that Lenkiewicz gave at Sherwell Church in 2000,

    #10112

    marlowe
    Participant

    Thank you Annie – interesting quotes.What I can't grasp from Frank

    Of course not, where in the field of science might an aesthetic matrix be studied? Robert has a very, very good pseudo philosophical position not a scientific one, it seems intuitive to people, it seems to make sense, I like it and I’m very picky.Neither do I think science can help either,

    is what ROL meant by 'physiology' if it's not a biological science? Is there any other meaning?

    #10113

    Frank
    Participant

    What I can't grasp from Frank is what ROL meant by 'physiology

    See third paragraph down in this post.[hr]Annie, If you have time I think the full manuscript reproduced as accurately as possible should be put in the library under the category (new) of Lenkiewicz talks or lectures.

    #10114

    marlowe
    Participant

    oh that! I hadn't taken it seriously. So a new kind of human physiology that can't be scientifically tested? Hmm :o.

    #10115

    Frank
    Participant

    Yes, the point here is to take your lead on what ROL meant from how he used a word and the context of use to arrive at a closer, more useful interpretation. It’s always going to be a problem to parry the excitement of learning a new word and its hard literal interpretation with context, but hang on in there. It’s worth emphasising the cautionary note from Annie as well;

    A cautionary note; these were his words on that evening and I have extracted a few quotes from what was a wide ranging discourse but he certainly said different things at different times and to different people

    We are dealing with an Artist who evolved over time, formed ideas and generated inconsistencies, however I think that adds to the story and would not prove a distraction when forming conclusions. I would encourage no editing or censorship, it would be a disaster if top down editorial control was exercised by anyone.From my perspective I would suggest that ROL’s physiological observations on ‘Love’ as an addiction reached their zenith during the late 70’s with the delivery of ‘Jealousy’, no deeper insight or potency was added to the idea despite 1981, ‘The painter with Mary’. However, the parallels with popular culture of the period are alarming, 1971 (“Jealous Guy”, John Lennon), 1975 (“Love is the Drug”, Roxy Music), 1985 (“Slave to Love”, Brian Ferry) ... to name a very few.

    #10116

    marlowe
    Participant

    However, the parallels with popular culture of the period are alarming, 1971 (“Jealous Guy”, John Lennon), 1975 (“Love is the Drug”, Roxy Music), 1985 (“Slave to Love”, Brian Ferry) ... to name a very few.

    Now you're sounding like Frank Tallis!

    #10117

    WEB WEAVER
    Participant

    Did someone mention popular music?Given that Roxy Music covered "Jealous Guy" all 3 of the popular culture examples are from their greatest hits CD! Spiritualized link unrequited love to heroin addiction - "Ladies and Gentlemen we're floating in Space," and elsewhere also throw in some gospel music for good measure - "Happy Day."

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