Karen Ciambriello painting stolen from Totness

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This topic contains 49 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  007 12 years, 3 months ago. This post has been viewed 4913 times

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  • #9053

    gbl
    Participant

    A bit of a sales lul perhaps? Maybe that is just owners trying to get rid of surplus prints as the market is too saturated, which would mean CR is correct and the market has no more room for them – I havent been studying it that closely. I just always remembered the prints being listed, with at least half of the RL stuff for sale being prints, and saw many of them having bids on (in the past)!However, The Triton Gallery in Exeter, had difficulty in getting hold of RL's work last year to sell, so they could not supply their own customers. So supply could not meet demand in that gallery at least! And although I haven't done proper research etc.; Paul Keen Auctions regular batch of RL's, and other auction houses & galleries still sell his prints? Doesn't that indicate a trade of some sort?

    #9054

    gbl
    Participant

    PS; have a look at ebay now; the three 'first to end' RL prints each have bids on them – so they are practically sold, and more have just been listed! Print market not quite dead yet!!

    #9055

    007
    Participant

    PS; have a look at ebay now; the three 'first to end' RL prints each have bids on them - so they are practically sold, and more have just been listed! Print market not quite dead yet!!

    #9056

    gbl
    Participant

    Well, I'm a realist and I would NOT say the print market is dead! Yes, values have gone down, but that doesn't mean 'end-of'. Values of art can rise as well as go down; trends and rises in popularity can change this, time also contributes. If there was no demand, the constant listing would naturally come to and at some point - logically it would have too.But there is still clearly a demand to buy the prints - unsigned, hardback, silkscreen, LTD edition, ALL types - even at the lower prices. And thats just with the current titles; any possible new releases could breath new life/new interest into the RL print market - with the correct marketing of course.

    #9057

    marlowe
    Participant

    However, The Triton Gallery in Exeter, had difficulty in getting hold of RL's work last year to sell, so they could not supply their own customers.

    They actually did find a way round it.....

    #9058

    gbl
    Participant

    Very funny Marlowe (took me while to work that out!).

    #9059

    007
    Participant

    The key issue for TLF's ability to raise income is therefore whether it can sell unsigned prints into a market that seems well-saturated with older signed prints that have either stagnated in value or maybe declined (certainly from the values reached in the 18 months after Robert's death).It seems significant that the rate of release of new prints is in decline, when Lenkiewicz's star appears to be rising outside of Plymouth. Did it strike anyone as peculiar that whilst all the hoohaa surrounding the London exhibition and the 'Big Issue' promotion was in full swing, there wasn't a batch of newly published prints trading on that publicity?

    #9060

    gbl
    Participant

    I am sceptical of TLF's ability to make any of their own policy or create a proper agenda. I dont know a lot about them, except that they are somewhat of a mystery, and they seem a bit dormant to me really. I think they could be more proactive, or perhaps it simply isn't tasteful to churn-out more unsigned prints, I dont know. But they once said they had lots of ideas of how they could go about raising money, and one of the TLF women even joked; "we would even consider printing some tea towels if necessary". They sold-off old the easels and broken pallets from RL's Studio, and then seemed to run out of ideas after that.

    #9061

    007
    Participant

    I'm not too bothered about whether the TLF have great marketing ideas or not. The point is that as the copyright holders they merely empower others, who do have expertise and a proven track record, to do that work for them and then just count the money as it comes in. The TLF should merely set the grand strategy; it shouldn't get mired in details in business areas in which it has no experience. For instance, supposed it wanted to produce gift cards with Lenkiewicz images on them. What would make most sense: trying by itself to break into the highly competitive world of gift card marketing and retail, or approaching a national publisher to see if they'd produce the cards and promote them in chain stores?

    #9062

    Christopher Raven
    Participant

    Did it strike anyone as peculiar that whilst all the hoohaa surrounding the London exhibition and the 'Big Issue' promotion was in full swing, there wasn't a batch of newly published prints trading on that publicity

    I am not surprised that TLF did not spend money they do not have on a risky commercial project in order to capitalise on a 'Halcyon Effect' that seems to have faded away almost as quickly as it appeared.

    #9063

    gbl
    Participant

    What would make most sense: trying by itself to break into the highly competitive world of gift card marketing and retail, or approaching a national publisher to see if they'd produce the cards and promote them in chain stores?

    If the following quote by Foundation trustee is true; "We are a charity with no way of making our own money"(see homepage of this site, in Evening Herald story ) then NO prints of any kind can be reproduced! However, I thought a charity could make its own money if profits went back into that charity - I dont know much about how charities work anyway, but I'm sure someone will put me right on this, or tell me if TLF can rightfully profit from the print maket or not?

    #9064

    marlowe
    Participant

    but I'm sure someone will put me right on this, or tell me if TLF can rightfully profit from the print maket or not?

    No they can't - yet. They aren't the copyright holders until the estate is settled. As far as I understand all prints since 2002 have been produced on behalf of the estate by Fisher Mackenzie with no benefit to TLF. When the executor goes, all benefits will go TLF.

    #9065

    007
    Participant

    gbl, yes, of course a charity can make profits to be used solely in pursuit of their charitable aims. They also benefit from tax breaks. TLF in fact already has a 'trading company'. What they have to be careful about, is that the charity is not perceived to be making profits for its Trustees too. This will always be a tricky issue as long as the pool of people who can contribute to the charity's effort also have long-standing commercial interests in Lenkiewicz. It's not an insurmountable problem though: it would simply have to be obvious that any commercial arrangements entered into were openly tendered and the best value obtained. In theory, any Trustee who might benefit in any way from the activities of the Trust have to be excluded from all decisions touching on the conflict of interest. Sometimes this is misinterpreted as 'if I declare my interest to my fellow Trustees, they are on the look-out for personal bias so it's OK if I take part'. That is NOT what declaration of interest means. Of course, in the real world, it's often hard to see how a small group of Trustees and personal friends can fail to be influencing each other all the time. Nevertheless, it is an ideal to be adhered to and no doubt the TLF will have to make some tough decisions once they take over.Christopher said:

    I am not surprised that TLF did not spend money they do not have on a risky commercial project in order to capitalise on a 'Halcyon Effect'

    It bears repeating again that TLF is NOT in control of the print business at present, the Estate is. What are we talking about here: a national billboard campaign? No. Just a relevant ad in a trade magazine or two and some product to sell. Not to have produced one Vagrancy print at that time was foolish. The fact none of this happened is eloquent by omission.The post-Halcyon prices were exactly what I expected. Mediocre pictures, many of them previously unsold at auction, were wheeled out at even higher prices, and promptly failed (again) in the provinces. What did anyone think: that the Halcyon's clientèle, when not buying pictures in Mayfair, frequent the Ashburton auction houses? Where do you think Ferrari buyers purchase their vehicles: in spiffy showrooms or out of Autotrader? We're in the realms of conspicuous consumption, where picking up a bargain (which none of those daubs were) is a bad thing.The new initiatives coming from TLF to show Robert's work are indeed very encouraging. This is a necessary process which has been discussed in another thread. Prior to the Halcyon show, I would have thought there would always be a clear divide between commercial exhibitions of his work and a more academic and low-key effort by TLF in public galleries. But then I was caught off guard by the clever exploitation of the Vagrancy theme by the Halcyon. It was a tantalizing foretaste of the way the two things might go hand in hand.But let's not forget the real issue. Glossy shows in Bond Street boutiques or worthy turnouts in Camden community galleries aren't going to attract the art critics. Some other way is going to have to be found to put Lenkiewicz in the picture when it comes to post-war British art.

    #9066

    marlowe
    Participant

    Going back to the ebay print market issue, isn't it partly this that has killed the local gallery print business?And I've looked back on this site to see when the last print was released but can't really see what it was or when. Anyone know?

    #9067

    gbl
    Participant

    What killed the local gallery print business would most likely have been the lack of new prints being produced, which meant that with no new prints to supply galleries, they couldn't supply their customers with any more. So that market just killed itself! This is why I think it would be a good idea to have some new prints made and inject a bit of new life into the RL gallery print market. And by doing so, RL would be given more a presence here, and will have 'one foot in the door' too.The Ebay RL print scene is mainly just the selling and buying of the existing 'pre-owned' (or 'second hand' if thats the right term) prints, which can no doubt co-exist along-side local gallery activity without affecting it.

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