- February 19, 2014 at 11:01 pm #11212
Look at this link:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10649198/Vettriano-retrospective-confirmed-as-most-popular-art-exhibition-held-at-Kelvingrove.htmlthere is an example of the people versus the critics.People 1 Critics 0February 20, 2014 at 11:05 am #11213
In order to try not to lose each point being made by different posts, I’m going to keep my responses separate for the moment. I’m also playing Devil’s Advocate to some extent to draw out the strengths of the arguments being made.Dutch Master, I guess your post, in the spirit of your football analogy, might be called Home or Away. TLF would love to do those Away shows in Europe and USA but they are seriously expensive to put on. Transport and in transit insurance to Germany was a five figure sum, for instance. One irony is that the more TLF achieves, the more owners think their paintings are worth and therefore the insurance values are getting higher all the time. The insured value for Germany was well over £2m! Another large cost relates to the point you make about audiences. As I’ve said, the Royal William Yard had very high visitor figures without much marketing because Lenkiewicz here will always draw a crowd. Outside the South West, and even more internationally, he is not well-known, if at all. Therefore, the marketing costs are high if you want to make sure all the effort isn’t wasted.While there is a danger of repeatedly showing the same paintings to the same people, TLF does think it is important to have a presence in Plymouth, and on The Barbican. Robert was an important part of that community for many years and, as I wrote in his obituary, the history of Lenkiewicz in the second half of the 20th century is the history of Plymouth (or something like that). He was a great recorder of the lives of the people in this city and wider area. The current ‘Education 25’ TLF initiative demonstrates this. TLF does need a base to operate from and somewhere to store whatever assets it has, at the very least.Re a film or documentary, this is something TLF has been considering for some time. Again the costs are a big factor as it does need to be of a professional standard to get any kind of serious network broadcasting. But we do understand the importance of it. Finally, Jack V. I suppose you could argue that it’s the equivalent of Plymouth City Museum staging a big Lenkiewicz show and very much a Home game. It will interesting to see if any Away games come as a result. Will Vettriano ever be included in Andrew Graham-Dixon's books?I’ll try to deal with Thais’ further points later.February 20, 2014 at 12:41 pm #11214
OK Thais, regarding St Saviours, yes it is the only option for the books. No other building on a suitable scale would be affordable. As one of our trustees says, it is also a building ‘with Robert’s DNA’ in it.Re prints, firstly, the first de Montfort series from The Painter with Women was well handled as there was a lot of contextual information with each showing, as well as a book which I think is a real insight into Robert’s ideas in that project. The deal with de Montforts included a commitment to publish a second wave of images from other projects after Project 18 but essentially they did not have enough confidence to do it. That’s why TLF has now published independently. We wanted to test the demand for and make available a wider spectrum of subject matter: Syd, The Chairs, Warren Woods, The Bishop, Les Ryder, Man Watching Woman Walking Away etc. There will be others to follow until we make everything we have available.The question isn’t whether TLF exists to satisfy the preferences of the public at all. Neither does it have anything to do with my opinion, nor anyone else’s, as to which are ‘commercially viable’. We are giving the opportunity to people to buy what they want and they decide with their cash. And, of course, TLF’s primary objective is to continue to finance the things we have been doing in recent years and are discussing doing here.February 20, 2014 at 1:25 pm #11215
I'm afraid I am only on-line (in my own time) at work. Access to Facebook is blocked. So this is the only forum for me.Here is a link to an article in the Plymouth Herald about a recent report about the changing face of library services in Plymouth. The article touches upon a lot of the issues already raised in this thread; providing some food for thought:February 20, 2014 at 2:56 pm #11216
Hi folks!Firstly, I think it's a bit poor that TLF only inherted around six paintings. There's something unjust about a solicitor who walks away with most of the share of money - it sounds like he was more crook than lawman!!! (..........allegedly)Anyway, TLF has arrived at a decision-making crossroads, and those decisions are about practicalities, rather than aesthetic or idealistic ones. Moving straight to practical possiblities. In response to francis question about whether they need to own paintings or not, I would suggest that TLF definately do retain ownership of their paintings. In fact, I believe TLF should even be looking to acquire more paintings, not less. Perhaps aiming to eventually own at least around twenty pieces so that there is enough available to hand to stage self-sufficient exhibitions at fairly short notice. Borrowing odd pieces for exhibitions will still take place of course, but having a ready-to-go set of paintings surely doesn't compare with the logistical and time-consuming task of arranging collection from owners and incurring transport costs etc.?Another good reason for acquiring more paintings is that as St. Saviours sounds like it will be in the hands of the gods, TLF might one day find themselves having to apply to, say, Plymouth City Council for premises of some kind, and perhaps suitable enough to hold paintings on display. So if an application is submitted it would add more weight to the application if you actually owned paintings which needed housing. The paintings would surely act as leverage when the council come to judge your accommodation needs/requirements(?).For the books however, I would suggest the exact opposite, and believe they could be sold off, using the money raised from their sale to buy additional paintings. I'd say that the vast majority of people who travel from afar to a Lenkiewicz exhibition, do so in order to see his art - how many of those would go to see just books? (not that you'd do that, but its just to illustrate a point). An idealist might envisage some sort of cafe/library situation where scholars/the general public can read them, but the practical implications of that scenario make it pretty unlikely - because letting the general public or sudents handle books involves things like wear & tear and damage over time - which amounts to a potential costs and a burdon, by way of administering/the ongoing overseeing/orchestrating it all. Even if TLF doesn't display the books for public use, the alternative for the books would then be keeping them stored in boxes year upon year doing nothing - which itself is a burdon due to storage costs etc. So, to me, all arrows point towards selling the books.Of course, scanning the books before you sell them is the wise option - that way, you'll have both the money and the books (albeit in digital format, which is perfect for Kindles etc.)! Also, scanning the books means you've still got the option to print out hard copies of them from the digital file if required, and can even be done in some sort of fancy ring-binder format with laminated pages etc for the more prized books. So 'scan & sell' is a win-win situation I think. As for future exhibitions, I think a certain geographical territory could be chosen, perhaps keeping it to, say, the South of England for example. Concentrating on the London / Bristol / Exeter / Plymouth corridor as a rough territory, which also happens to correspond with the train line (always handy!). Overseas exhibitions are all very well, but would TLF be spreading awareness of ROL too thinly by doing sparse numbers of shows here and there in the vastness of Europe(?). So concentrating efforts around 'a patch' so to speak, in the UK, might prove more productive in the long-term.February 20, 2014 at 8:36 pm #11217
Hallo...Here's the linkhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/107170259311714/?bookmark_t=groupI hope!February 21, 2014 at 10:29 am #11218
gbl, nice idea about buying more paintings , just one slight problem – where's the money coming from? Owning also meansFebruary 23, 2014 at 9:04 pm #11219
Hi,I'm hearing there is another debate going on about TLF and these issues, I guess on the Facebook page which Annie posted here? I understand some of this may relate to books in Robert's collection of the Occult which were in fact sold off back in 2004. I wasn't a trustee then and it was when Annie was Chair, so maybe she could comment on that better than me.But I would presume that all those with something to say or contribute can post here, so could you do that if you have something interesting to add? I assume no-one is afraid of having to have their views tested in an open forum! I would love to hear them.February 24, 2014 at 12:57 am #11220
No… the debate on the fb group is still very much in the present. The trouble is that the people commenting there don't have accounts here, and are unable to get them. If you don't have a facebook account, perhaps another TLF spokesperson could answer questions there on your behalf?Once again I'm going to be a headache and go totally off topic, but I would like to request something. Does there exist anywhere an accessible/public list of the owners and lenders of the paintings of the Germany shows? If not could I request one please?Thank youFebruary 24, 2014 at 1:09 am #11221
I think it's makes more sense to keep the debate to one forum.February 24, 2014 at 11:08 pm #12254
Back online, but a few comments (along with chunks of pre-existing comments) were lost. testing to see if I can post ok…February 25, 2014 at 1:13 am #12269
Amusingly, the site seems to have called me ‘Professor Pnoobo’. It’s a title I like but I’m going to try & change it back to a more ‘real’ version of my identity!February 25, 2014 at 8:38 am #12289
I’m still Professor Pnoobo this morning. I wonder who the ‘real’ Prof. P. was [from this site, I mean]? Before I assumed his/her identity? Robert, of course, quoted a Prof. P. in one of his essays and of course this was a non-existant personna. I wonder if anyone will now assume my identity on this site…
I hope people will login to this site.
Is there a page on TLF’s official site that enables people to login & ask questions?February 25, 2014 at 10:05 am #12566
Prof Pnoobo, I’m here just for you, now show me those dresses 😉February 25, 2014 at 10:19 am #12570
Ha … this is the annoying thing! Anonymity [how do you spell that?]. I can’t tell who is propositioning me! AND he/she hasn’t asked any questions about the church or the library!
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